Maybe the apostles did not want to be found by a major persecutor of the movement and Saul/Paul had no alternative but to put some distance between himself and his previous life until things calmed down a bit. Considering the level of corruption I impute to mixing with Driscoll, Im not wondering much. To tell, perhaps? Q. Guess well see. I am thinking visitors, right? James River Church is one of the largest Assemblies of God churches in the United States. 16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD. For the Christmas services, additional services were added to further provide for social distancing. If the denominational system is rejected on doctrinal grounds, that only leaves the congregation. Some people believe that God put them there. Did Paul hire a company to buy his books and get them on the bestseller list? Sam, I sincerely hope that nothing Ive written ever makes you rethink your relationship with God. Like the guy who was in charge of SGM, he got away scot-free and is doing well for himself despite the outcry against him. After witnessing Philips miracles, he tried to buy the power with his money. Six months for Driscoll does not represent later in life, give him another ten or twenty years. They may have been totally shocked when Mark began to spew his rude, humiliating, oppressive descriptions and warped perceptions of scripture and men and women. That is certainly not an idea they got from the Bible. Dont get Left Behind. (KY3) - James River Church responded Monday to complaints after social media images show little social distancing and few masks at its Christmas celebrations. And thats just the tip of the iceberg. @ Lydia: If so associating with Driscoll they can get the thug part down. The way I see things may be different in that I see the individuals in the Kingdom being more important than mediating organizations in the church universal. I hope you dont write off church altogether. Thats why I would use a better example: If you knew that someone is a recovering alcoholic, would you employ him as a barkeeper? 33 And when they were come unto a place called Golgotha, that is to say, a place of a skull, Thanks for sharing your perspectives Abi Mia and Nancy, I appreciate that. No body guards. They noted that since the pandemic began, they have taken very stringent precautions at each service, including: take temperatures at the door, fog-sanitize their auditorium, sanitize the childrens areas and common areas multiple times daily and provide masks to everyone who attends. people have said to stay involved in churches to keep them encouraged to follow the Lord and speak up if they are going away towards money and corruption, that is no longer even possible, you can get shunned slandered and prob threats to your life for speaking up anymore. Ironically, in giving this speech, Lindell was doing just that shooting the wounded. Good point as far as it goes. 4 Ways of Discerning If You Have Left Jesus Behind. Unless of course, they give up the celebrity/money/position and go into obscurity getting real jobs. They may have been totally shocked when Mark began to spew his rude, humiliating, oppressive descriptions and warped perceptions of scripture and men and women. Hope youll give us another try and check out some other articles. How can a reasonable person look past that? What a waste of a ministry! Thanks for the link i want to read more of the writers work. OTOH, they may yet surprise us and probably even themselves. Did MD admit to being WWII under duress or was that more mischief from Dark Miscoll? I think Dr Fundy left out the irony/sarcasm tags introduced with HTML 5.5. I couldnt get through Marks sermon.so what was coming up for me during Pastor Lindells introduction was the idea of the Karpman Drama Triangle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karpman_drama_triangle (Persecutor/Rescuer/Victim roles that people bounce around in during unhealthy interactions.) Not a fan but many are. Which is all to say that if he was a wanted man back in Jerusalem and the believers did not trust him, then some of the credit for his going away for a few years goes to those who did not let him just keep on keeping on, despite some abrupt lateral entry into proto-christianity. stephen doesnt blameshift, doesnt lose his temper, stays calm. By the way, what do you call a person who tells lies? I will never forget the first time I was looking at an org chart of a mega while prepping to facilitate a planning session. It shows also in our perception of ourselves and others when we still have areas of sin. He did it from one of the most powerful places in Southwest Missouri the pulpit of James River Church, where he leads an Assemblies of God congregation that often tops 9,000 worshipers on. His most shocking was when just before he stepped down from the pulpit and was in the midst of many scandals, he did a sermon on the many mistakes of Jesus. When Robert brags about lunching with Greg Abbott, golfing with George W Bush or being Rick Santorums spiritual advisor, it makes me feel ill. They proposed to keep Marc but I had to go. A lot of people will say, 'I got that. Even setting aside his vulgarity, what of his abusiveness, his corruption? Its all PR spin, because they got caught with their (or, pardon the metaphor, MDs) pants down. instead i find now that the Lord uses other christians to confirm things He has shown me, instead of the Lord teaching me things that others say i should believe and me just accepting them as the word of God because the guy has a position or written a book or is promoted by other pastors. It was especially appropriate to hear last night since our current sermon series is on the topic of Worship. One co worker attends and stated that they requested to see W2s and that he tithe accordingly when he was inquiring to become a member. Youre not one of us. It probably did. (I saw a guy do this on a live stage in England once, on a YouTube video. Whats the worst import/export that youve seen? It is affiliated with Assemblies of God USA. He set himself up as King of Acts 29 and operated with no accountability at Mars Hill. In February of 2007, Mark Driscoll preached a sermon that included raising funds for Agathos. The first time, it was shocking. If there are reports of a scandal or problems at a church, they are true. Christians have to be different than that. LT: Certainly they all hire each other as guest speakers in order to pay large honorariums from tithe dollars that end up in each others personal bank accounts. I used to buy into this,thinking it is such wisdom to see ourselves in the examples of scripture, until I realized that we never seem to see ourselves as the villain. When he agreed to accept an $850,000 annual pay package while other staff were being laid off due to declining offerings, was he in a fugue state, incapable of understanding what was going on? My old church Gateway has atmosphere teams in services to emotionally manipulate members and visitors. Additionally, Jonna Petry (who started the blog Joyful Exiles) was shunned along with the Petry children. Mega-church Christianity with its rock bands, light shows, huge screens, and glitz reminds me more of Broadway than a church. The Stronger Men's Conference exists to empower and motivate men to live out God's view of manhood and be the best husbands, fathers, and leaders God has called them to be! ATB In 2019, James River reported an average weekly attendance of 19,000,[1]making it one of the ten largest AG churches and one of the largest churches in Missouri (subsequently Springfield). I recently ran into Scott Thomas and asked him about his promise to never abandon our orphans. He was no longer at Mars Hill Church and was himself suffering a level of abuse from the Mars Hill Church leadership. It is all choreographed and it works! I want to know how I was deceived. @ LT: Lindell's sermon is further entwined with politics because he mentions Springfield Mayor Bob Stephens. A cynical, weary part of me says theyll never change. So we were allowed to leave in good standing. I never thought of that but that certainly might be the case. Association of Related Churches Whats the worst import/export that youve seen? It is anguish because i love them, and see the pain of all three of them. Wow! I know historical accounts can be skewed. In the future, people will tell churches and christians to distance themselves from the dishonesty of the dishonest churches. He told me he will vote against repeal. Returning so soon to the limelight reinforces the idea that it really is all about Mark. Join Us As we Welcome Our Speaker, Apostle Mark Driscoll, The Forgiven. Covenants, ruling elders, etc. Glassdoor provides our best prediction for total pay in today's job market, along with other types of pay like cash bonuses, stock bonuses, profit sharing, sales commissions, and tips. 14 I have seen also in the prophets of Jerusalem an horrible thing: they commit adultery, and walk in lies: they strengthen also the hands of evildoers, that none doth return from his wickedness: they are all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah. You need to check yourself Lindell then apologize and repent. Did he have liveried Armorbearers blowing long trumpets before him to announce how HUMBLE(TM) he was (chuckle chuckle)? One needed them because they were somehow spiritually qualified (?) Mark also provided the all important yet elusive authentic community so long as you bow to him and stay on his good size. ( a stage really ) Same old spin .different tune. District. He had no idea. OTOH, they may yet surprise us and probably even themselves. By and large, our local churches have been great examples of staying emotionally connected while protecting one another in this pandemicthis example does not do those congregations justice., I stg we're the dumbest country in world. So as long as Driscoll can provide entertainment and ratings, Pentecostals will continue to book him. actually getting behind the wheel of a car again will probably be the hardest thing he does, if he ever even wants to drive again. CCHD encourages individuals who were present at the high-capacity event over the weekend to monitor for symptoms of COVID-19 for 14-days from the event date and seek medical attention if symptoms develop., Church officials defended themselves in a statement issued to KYTV-KSPR, noting that despite what the images show, we take seriously the safety and health of those who attend our services.. However, we also see that David and Samuel were permitted to speak out publicly against Saul in truth. There is a distinct period of time that must pass before you can really objectively address the damage that that place does. We know that Driscoll should never have been a pastor: lack of formal qualifications, lack of maturity in the faith (too young, and never been a member of a church before he started his own), lack of maturity in general; Whats worse, total lack of good character. How far can a pastor go in preaching the gospel when it comes to a political issue? Not a fan but many are. Is this similar to Radical Chic? Are you not voting? "Join us as we welcome guest speaker, Pastor Mark Driscoll, while he presents Paul the ForgivenPastor Mark Driscoll speaks from Acts 6:8-15 to discuss the importance of forgiveness in our own lives through the example of the Apostle Paul. All you have to do is say some magic words and we end up being the mean ones if dare say we otherwise. You want to go all Colonel Jessup and rant about the truth? Here are just some of the phrases he uses as he shares the story. For those who follow celebrities, I dont, this is the church that made it into the news last year. When I read your comment, this suddenly popped into my head. These leaders are lacking even a basic level of discernment or judgement. The financial aspects. OZARK, Mo. To learn more, visit ja. Its much harder to leave that way. The guests are members and attendees (because many regulars never joined). For all the lack of American Idol production values I learned more in that one day of teaching at that little church then I did in all the years I attended Gateway. Im all for forgiveness but this complete whitewash of history when someone offers up an opportunistic Im sorry is not something I see in day to day life. Only the hero. My guess is that their Calvinism isnt the root problem here. It is like embezzlers working around money. Membership Covenants I try to make sure my examples reflect current GW practice which is repellent to follow but important that people understand the stuff that I am posting is happening in real time. I see him as a conference speaker on a different circuit. I wish he would try to get a corporate communications job or something though. Regardless of your tilt on the subject, Lindell appears to go out of his way to make it into the news on the subject. Yes, I have been witnessing first hand over the years of the Calvinism in the AG. Or (referring to Joseph) how to achieve your dreams. We are dedicated to making a difference in the lives of people through relevant teaching, heartfelt worship, and amazing kids & youth programs. You can learn a lot about someones character from how they treat those who are below them in status. Che Guevera was a die hard Communist who actively conspired with the Soviet Union to turn America into a long nuclear winter landscape that would put Winterfell to shame. Persecuted, but You cant criticize me for a moment. As for my outsider perspective he seems like someone youd want as a pastor if you wanted to get big and have lots of revenue streams. https://wonderingeagle.wordpress.com/2015/06/12/how-to-respond-to-a-faith-crisis-establishing-and-building-trust/. The 38-year-old "Tomb Raider" beauty has been fighting nonstop with Pitt over his parents' and siblings' dedication to a church with a hate-mongering pastor who rails against gays and preaches that homosexuality dishonors God. Every week seems to get more strange and more openly cult like. All the celebrity has to do is play the victim/repented card. Yes, Lord, he answered. "A missionary is a qualified Christian sent out under the authority of a local church to an area of recognized need in order to pursue the work of the Great Commission." they had a scandal about their homes for helping young women also, financial corruption-ish and not letting the women get outside counseling. He doesnt come near to meeting basic societal criteria for a decent person. At his height of fame Driscoll was the bad boy of the Christian world. Nancy, i think theres a lot of truth to what you say, and its more than posdible that people he was addressing in his letters knew at least something about that. I know the utter devastation that these cults can wreak on their members. It is a winner! A grunge rock Lord Byron mad, bad and dangerous to know. There is no reason why he should be a pastor again. They are relinquishing 10-20% of their gross income. 20 Reproach hath broken my heart; and I am full of heaviness: and I looked for some to take pity, but there was none; and for comforters, but I found none. In many ways, Barnabus is like Pauls pastor for a time. The problem is that the average pew-sitter has no idea what things a leader should be judged by. he smiles and there is love in his heart. That has made logical sense to me forever. probably just my opinion, and I overgeneralized. Did this evil plot involve the use of ninjas or leprechauns? Sincerely want to know what the alternative is. was paul asking for forgiveness? We are passionate about . i was thinking about how i probably sound critical to some people when i post on here about how i dont think people are apologizing right. If a pastor says anything positive about another pastor, they have something to hide. It was like my eyes were open. In case this was not a rhetorical question, Location. Edit: Thank you to everyone who commented. . Just volunteers. Also, as Driscolls friend, John Piper, wrote: pastors are not professionals. Lindell reused the Robert Morris line of chiding his congregation to stop shooting the wounded. Driscoll also distanced himself from past crude and misogynistic remarks, calling the perception of what I think about womenentirely my own fault. If it is all about numbers and money it would be a wild ride for about five or ten years till it crashes. The world has a lot higher standards and integrity than the whole xtian celebrity machine put together, and the internet helps everyone to see that. Sometimes the writers have an agenda, at others, there is more of an assumption of knowledge that the original readers/hearers possessed that we dont. I started to ask myself, If Christ is present in someones life, and therefore the Spirit, will not God, in his infinite power, begin to produce those things in that person? And I began to wonder if Mark Driscoll even possessed the Spirit of God. It came swiftly and with great effect. http://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/answers/jewish-polemics/texts/christian-proof-texting/, from reading rob smiths post about the orphanage Agathos in Africa being defunded by Marks Hill church and marks telling missionaries not to work with them it is clear where Matt Chandler got the idea. ( As with the dituation with John Mark mentioned in Acts, and the conflict with Peter mentioned in Galatians. Likewise, in house churches sin happens because people will be people. any way i am still wrestling with my view of my world and churches and like you mentioned, gun shy when i go into a new church. Great comment Bridget. He can be forgiven. your post, and this one i read on facebook yesterday: I then stood up and pointed out that 30 lines below the famous quote All men are created equal the Declaration of Independence refers to Natives as merciless Indian savages. http://nativenewsonline.net/currents/the-dilemma-of-the-fourth-of-july/. if your a sports fan theres a point of where something amazing is about to happenfootball baseball in the middle of a game changing moment they jump out of their seat. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. So start telling us exactly what in the blogosphere is false. I was shocked and deeply saddened to see photos from the James River event over the weekend. I simply offer another perspective. Maybe Driscoll feels a notch above Paul since hes not called for any ones death? where is God in all this? One of the most chilling doctrines out of Calvinism is using Paul for this purpose. COuld someone explain how its supposed to work without a leader . Youll notice the Pentecostals elevating him are in their 50s and 60s. So, that is why I think it would have been wise for Driscoll to remove himself from the limelight and assume a servant posture. Week of Power with Bill Johnson & Randy Clark Sunday, March 12 - Thursday March 16. Return to homepage. He can darn well get used to a lower standard of living. Mark Driscoll was totally missing those things. But we dont know yet for sure. -Any allegations are probably not as bad as the truths. What Im curious though is how the church (corporate) can self regulate against that in the face of the money and power, both spiritual and temporal, that types like MD help create. I sometimes think the man has no friends, but if he does, they should help him now. Even after becoming a believer he wanted more. His Father owns the cattle on a thousand hills and Jesus never asked a single person for a single penny. Youll see they have no standards regarding truth, salt of light. A grunge rock Lord Byron mad, bad and dangerous to know. hmmm Most people have more sunk into that cult than they do their homes. notable pastors have been pouring into his life. All allegation deserve to be investigated with openess and transparancy. My old church Gateway has atmosphere teams in services to emotionally manipulate members and visitors. http://godsbreath.net/2007/11/07/qualifications-for-pastors/, A few items: A preacher is not to be- Just show-biz. Did he write (with $200k ResultSource juice job) a Best-Seller on His Humility (chuckle chuckle)? I agree more with you than I would like to. paul was all about not having followers or being glorified. People think that Christians want filled pews and big churches, most do, i strongly disagree with that. Wonder what else is in the Acts29 playbook that we havent seen yet! Are you not reporting instant healing to keep the confirmed miracle count up? believe these churches are using Driscoll as fallen pastor insurance. Same goes for singles. I think people on all sides of these conflicts did some pretty horrendous things, as well as some decent things. Bummer. Do you know his history and what he represents? Otherwise, its authentic shunning for you. And he cant really do that if he keep holding on to the more sexist, frat boy type of Christianity that Neo Calvinists support that he was espousing at Mars Hill. Then I would take notice that there might be something to their repentance. As Lydia has wisely pointed out, cult survivors are all at different stages in their recovery. From my perspective, the problem with Driscolls repentance is the same as the problem with the Chandler apology. Thanks for your help Numo! Driscoll should not be granted any level of power till he has demonstrated that he has obtained the humility necessary to handle it. Ever heard a sermon about Slaying your giants? Going forward, we are committed to doing a better job of encouraging and maintaining the procedures necessary to keep people safe and secure, James River Church officials explained. then mark goes on to teach us that we must forgive even if the person never admits wrong or says I am sorry: vengance is where you make someone pay. Lindell has expressed his views on the topic before. I felt physically ill when I saw them. Any of all of that may be true. James River Church | Ozark MO - Facebook We hunkered down and prepared ourselves for the impact of Mark Driscolls threat. Except we now know Mark didnt actually write he books he used ghost writers and plagiarized, but minor details, an important thing you wrote about gateway i think. Why should we bother with reading history or learning the truth? they get tired of hearing his kind words they shove it into his mouth. But we rarely hear about that. I do hope he finds wholeness. If a pastor makes a statement denying allegations, its a lie. Has he asked them to forgive him?
