Essentially it boils down to performance and suppressibility. The Premier Body Armor Vertx Collaboration Adds More Options, VIDEO: Police Snipers Train for Super Bowl LIV With .50 BMG, More, The MAUSER 98 125th Anniversary Limited-Edition Series, FIRST LOOK: Glock Just Very Quietly Unveiled the New Glock 47 Pistol, Police Sidearms: The Handguns of Americas 10 Largest Departments, Black Creek Labs MRX Bronco, TRX Bronco Hunter Rifles, CMP Surplus Ammo Coming Soon in M2 Ball, .30 Carbine & More, Active School Shooter Training: 14 Key Points to Consider, 5 Strategies For Effectively Completing a Tactical Reload, FIRST LOOK: Colt CBX Precision Chassis Rifle Ready to Compete & Win, 5 Common Myths on How to Survive a Gunfight, Understanding Stand Your Ground Laws and Castle Doctrine, Long-Distance Shooting: 5 Must-Know Tips For Spotters & Shooters, IMPACT Experience Events Redefine Your Long-Range Shooting Limits, Sniper Skills: Taking Your Shooting Precision to the Next Level. It has a cone-within-a-cup two-piece design reminiscent of the Noveske KX3. Suppressed though, that Saint Pistol is terrific. Both of them are chambered in uncommon, proprietary bottleneck cartridges, the 5.7x28mm and 4.6x30mm, respectively. Joe Kurtenbach and Caleb Giddings also look at the first-ever optics-ready carry revolvers with the new Taurus 605 and 856 T.O.R.O. This eliminates the crack that coincides with the bullet leaving the muzzle caused by the projectile breaking the sound barrier. There is longer rifling in the barrel of the handgun currently on my hip than there is in this PDW. Saint Victor .308 competition | The Armory Life Forum With the stock folded, the gun is only 16 inches long, making it the shortest 300 Blackout weapon on the market. The buttstock was properly applied and showed only the slightest wiggle. In measuring trigger-pull weight, we arrived at an average of about 7.2 pounds. Cookie Notice Jones .300 Whisper wildcat cartridge and developed the SAAMI-standardized 300 Blackout. Two apertures were supplied, but the larger aperture was too open, in our opinion. Your welcome BET7, I've looked at the Christensen Arms and pretty sweet , Also was dead set on getting a Danial defense DD4 after shooting it at the expo , but didn't . The only complaint is the 300 Blackouts A2 flash hider. Spring loaded at rest, there was a platform on each side that released the sight instantaneously to its vertical position. Springfield Saint Edge PDW AR Pistol Review - Guns and Ammo Actually, there is little here that would put off the sophisticated shooter as well. Sig isnt the most popular on the forum, but Ive never had an issue with my M400. It has a pretty decent barrel and is reliable, so I can recommend it as a solid choice. A Magpul dual split aperture flip-up rear sight was attached to the top rail that ran the length of the receiver. Sig offers several variants, including pistols with stabilizing braces. They said nothing as short as the rattler. To extend it, just give the brace a vigorous yank. Let's pick up there. As a PDW cartridge, the .223/5.56, unlike the 5.7x28mm and 4.6x30mm, is grossly inefficient. It opened up at about 3 inches and penetrated 12.7 inches, retaining 192.8 grains of its original bullet weight. Working the charging handle was smooth and revealed no linear movement. No problems except for the gas blowback. Use of our website(s) implies understanding of our content disclaimer and privacy policy. We also tested with 77-grain OTM 223 Remington rounds manufactured by SIG Sauer. Maybe i'll sell the .308 if they ship me a new replacement and get an M1A instead, but i'm not exactly dying to give that money right back to them after this fiasco. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Ive tested full-size rifles that werent any more accurate than that. For sling attachment there was a fixed steel sling loop at the heel of the butt plate, or you could utilize the slot that ran parallel to the buffer tube beneath the cheek piece. SIG Sauer MCX-SPEAR: Civilian Version of XM7 Rifle Arrives! Decibels dont drop like flies with every load. These guns eventually faded awaypartially because of their ammunition and because it was easier to use a variant of the M4 Carbinebut the need did not. However, if youre shooting supersonic, its right on target. Its so small you barely know its there, and its also rated for sub- and supersonic loads. 354K views 4 years ago In this episode of TFBTV, James Reeves reviews the SIG MCX Rattler, a 5.5" PDW in .300BLK that has been purchased for US SOCOM evaluation. AR-15 Carbines for Less Than $1300: The Winner is a Saint As our tests continued and the trigger broke in, we sometimes experienced only one stopping point before break. I suppose this is due, in part, to how much gas is escaping out the short barrel past the bullet instead of gathering force behind it as it would in a longer barrel. In fact, it wasnt that long ago that SIG was in a similar position. With a 9.6-inch barrel, M-LOK BCM Gunfighter handguard, forward handstop and more, that SAINT served as a solid introductory model. In use, it seemed to all but disappear. That's a $1000 dollar rifle and a good deal at that but you're getting gouged pretty bad at 1400. FN sells a 16-inch-barreled carbine version of the P90, the PS90, but it looks ugly and awkward and is far from compact. Sig 716i or Springfield Victor Saint .308, https://www.surplusammo.com/categori-308-mags.html, MISC Training Course Announcements & AAR's, Former Vickers Shooting Method Regional Instructors, Pacific Northwest Training and Networking, All Other Longgun Parts, Accessories, & Magazines (EE), Handgun Parts, Accessories & Magazines (EE), If this is your first visit, be sure to To keep my support hand from creeping up on the muzzle, I added an M-LOK-compatible Kinesthetic Angled Grip (KAG) from Bravo Company Manufacturing (BCM) to the forend. I'll go with the Sig and do those upgrades for sure. The only spot on the Rattler is its trigger. With most loads, a 9-inch barrel is enough bore for a complete powder burn. To find out if any of the above added up to improved performance, we tested for accuracy from the 100-yard line at American Shooting Centers in Houston. But I also own several Springfields (M1As in 308 & 6.5cm, Saint Ar15 when it first came out, compact XDe, XDs & XD Mod2 all in 45s, TRPs in 45 & 10mm and the now discontinued Range Officer in 45). The Rattler runs a very dependable gas-piston system, which eliminates all the fouling typical in these short-barreled configurations. Rattler was built to be fired primarily unsuppressed, with the ability to be suppressed, if needed. The buttstock, although appearing very much in the M4 tradition, was modified to offer holes on each side for a quick-detach sling loop. Indoors, every load produced visible flash, but premium ammo gave me a small, manageable flash. With the stock folded, the gun is only 16 inches long, making it the shortest 300 Blackout weapon on the market. This may be true for some configurations, in certain environments, with particular loads. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Gun Tests has been independently reviewing firearms since 1989. But Wilsons Q-Comp flash hider/muzzle brake also does its part in keeping the gun manageable. So, as you can see, this is the ultimate platform for a protective detail, SWAT operations where concealability is paramount, or vehicle or home defense with responsible citizens. The SIG Rattler is something special. To find out what it was like to operate these guns at speed, we visited the Impact Zone Range in Hempstead, Texas for some timed close-quarters fire. After all, the eminently suppressible, hard-hitting .30-caliber was tailored for such gunscarbine and smaller that is. Still love Springfield but im sour on that line. After our run with the Saint, all three targets showed five hits. We liked this because it simply wipes clean, making it easy to keep track of debris buildup and wear. Thats pretty much what youd expect from a V-MAX. Coming in at 5.1 pounds empty, sporting a 5.5-inch barrel and folded length of 17 inches, the MCX Rattler is definitely compact enough to be carried anywhere. Takedown revealed nickel-boron coating of hammer and trigger components, plus a tension screw to fix any gap between the upper and lower ends of the rifle. The top tier AR-15 rifle offered incredible performance at a very reasonable price. With the provided 20-round Magpul PMAG in place, the PDW weighs 5 pounds, 10 ounces. Whereas there is nothing special about the front sight, buttstock, or handguard, upgrades to the magazine release, safety levers, and the bolt catch are more expensive to manufacture or supply than a fancy handguard or buttstock. The Gunfighter grip offers an extended backstrap to shield the web of the hand and the knurled side panels that provided excellent traction. I wanted to see if the bullets would expand at close range given their lower velocities. This gun has a picatinny rail system for accessories, a six-position collapsible stock, a flash suppressor and a single-stage trigger. The SIG MCX Rattler Review - YouTube and our Surrounding the barrel and piston system is a 5-inch, free-floating M-LOK handguard. Visually, this made them less obvious. When I saw it, I wanted to hate it, specifically for what it isnt. I have builds from BCM, Springfield, Noveske and PSA. *Bullet weight measured in grains, velocity in fps by chronograph and accuracy in inches for best 5-shot groups at 50 yards. Hence there are solid copper bullets for high speed applications in 16 inch carbines (1/6 rate or greater) that shoot 300 BLK, but the ammo is expensive. The new-for-2023 lineup includes ultralight hunting stocks and a VGA 2-pound adjustable vertical-grip stock. The system is also completely modular like the MPX. I assumed shooting this gun would be like holding a concussion grenade in my teeth, but I was pleasantly surprised thanks to the Hate Brake. I found myself hooking my index finger around the front of it while shooting as opposed to actually using it as a hand stop. After comparing the two the Springfield was built better and looked better and had better brace . The Barnes 110-grain TAC-TX had fully expanded by 7 inches, leaving a perfectly mushroomed bullet weighing 108 grains at 26 inches. From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm. I will not consider another firearm from the Saint line ever again. To get started, click the link below to visit mymagnow.com and learn how to access your digital magazine. That said, and this being Wilson, dont expect some off-the-rack experience with the gun. As long as you are not expecting rifle-length performance out of a barrel this short, you wont be disappointed. I love my Evo .. You must log in or register to reply here. Also, unlike the HK MP7 and FN P90, you can actually buy a Springfield Armory PDW. Before we get there, lets look at the concept of the personal-defense weapon (PDW). Depending on where you stand in the stabilization debate, this could prove a dealbreaker. The PDW with the Hate Brake produced far less flash and noise than a 16-inch-barreled AR equipped with a traditional muzzlebrake. So much so that we almost took to calling it a three-stage trigger. Help me! Springfield Armory Saint vs Sig Sauer M400 Tread : r/ar15 - reddit General guidelines dictate a 1:7 twist rate (there are also the odd 1:5 examples) for subsonic 300 Blackout and a 1:8 or slower for supersonic. Anything under 10.5" and not only do you run the risk of a strike but you are also going to get a ton of unburnt powder trashing the inside of the can. Sig Sauer New M400 Tread Snakebite SE 5.56 - The Armory Life 2023 Outdoor Sportsman Group. This is why the gun world is awash in top-notch 300 Blackout pistols. Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more. There was a slot for threading a sling and also a hole on each side for attaching a QD sling loop. They are meant to be easier to use and harder-hitting than a handgun but smaller and lighter than a rifle. Operation was very smooth and secure. However, given the options available, there are plenty of reasons and opportunities to buy a complete firearm. The trigger was forgiving in any situation, and construction was first rate. Eric Poole and Tom Beckstrand test the Aimpoint Acro P-2 against one of red dot sights' biggest myths: distance. Springfield Armory SAINT 5.56 NATO [MSRP $919] Sig Sauer M400 Tread 5.56 NATO [MSRP $949] - 16 Stainless Steel Barrel, Free-Floating M-LOK Handguard, . then they had the new CZ 75 Tactical Sport 2 Blue in $1,699 . Im looking eventually for a Tread 400 (maybe this one?). To carry the Rattler discreetly, I used Eberlestocks Combat Office Brief, which represents a typical messenger bag, as well as several other covert packs in my inventory, including some camera bags. All three-rifle barrels were marked 5.56 NATO. JavaScript is disabled. I would really like to hear from you guys who have had access and range time with these MSR's. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. From the 100-yard line, the Saint delivered 1.0-inch five-shot groups with the Black Hills 60-grain V-Max, 69-grain OTM rounds, and the 77-grain TMK ammunition. The Sig Rattler is only available with a 5.5 inch barrel, in 300 Blackout or 5.56mm. Some of these extras include a top-end self-lubricating nickel-boron trigger, suppressor-ready heavy tungsten buffer, adjustable SB Tactical SBA3 brace and forward hand stop. Hay Talyn, The 1st pic is of the new Switchblade 5.56 Pistol , Which is a real pic from the LGS. Over ten trigger pulls we never got the same reading twice. Another design goal was optimized sound suppressor use, so sub- and supersonic 300 Blackout loads were developed. AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own. Introduced in 2015, the MCX is essentially a larger, rifle-caliber version of Sig Sauers pistol-caliber MPX. Fun as all get out to rattle off the range. Ah, the AR-pistol. It boasts the nice extra of a forward flash diverter, clearing the line of sight for fast follow-ups and target acquisition. As to suppressibility, few centerfire rifle cartridges do it better. For a full answer to that, were going to have to explore exactly what a PDW is, but before I do that, lets look at the specs of this gun. Upon an audible start signal, the shooter raised the carbine from low ready (about a 30-degree angle to the horizon), switched off the safety, and engaged each target with only one round before moving on. Now I have Seven Springfield guns with Five Saint Victors . Reader's Choice: Best AR-15 (Stock or Factory Model) - The Firearm Blog For a company many people thought was years late to the AR party, Springfield Armory has done an amazing job in seizing a substantial percentage of the AR-15 marketplace, and theyre not slowing down. Compare. But I would take the Sig over the Springfield every day of the week, and twice on Sundays. The 2nd pic is from the Sig website.. SIG Sauer has just introduced their latest offering in their tread series of rifles with the introduction of the SIG TREAD Snakebite SE. The combination of the mid-length gas system and the heavy buffer make a Saint very soft shooting. Dependent on load, firearm and environment, expect anywhere from a 250 fps to 350 fps difference between the lengths. Following the success of its initial collaboration with Vertx, Premier Body Armor announces its continued partnership. You are using an out of date browser. We noticed that across all choices of ammunition the Saint produced the most velocity from each round. One last more subtle upgrade was the trigger guard from Bravo Company that left more room for a gloved finger without necessarily having to unlatch the bottom panel. Love this gun . Will it perform at greater distances? What is it? SIG MCX Rattler - Xtreme Guns & Ammo FIRST LOOK: Sig Sauer MCX Rattler, the Worlds Smallest Rifle. Springfield has made some shitty moves in the past but they make an amazing AR. Camp Guns: Sometimes Perfect, Other Times Not But Often Essential! I'm selling my XD and definitely going with the MCX. I put a ton of ammunition through this rifle, and everything workedtypical of the MCX series. The Judge has been promoted! What surprised me as much as the complete reliability was how soft-shooting the PDW was. Wilson Combat SFX9 5-Inch Solid Frame 9mm Pistol: First Look. There was, however, a relief on each side of the handguard about 2.5 inches ahead of the receiver for attaching a quick detach (QD) button-style sling loop. The M400 tread is sort of a gimmicky rifle from Sig. The new rifle is built on an aluminum billet chassis with carbon-fiber forend and cheek riser featuring V-block bedding. In our view, the advertising campaign that preceded the Saints introduction underscored that the AR-15 is not just for the military. But thats what your 20-inch barreled baby is for, right? Short and sweet, the 5.5-inch barreled MCX Rattler is as compact as 300 Blackout pistols come. S pringfield Armory rocked the firearms community with the introduction of the SAINT rifle in 2016. Springfield Armory Saint Victor. Springfield Armory Saint vs Sig Sauer M400 Tread . Springfield Armory SAINT 5.56 NATO [MSRP $919] - Bravo Company Buttstock/Pistol Grip/Handguard/Trigger Guard, Nickel Boron GI Trigger, 16 Melonite Barrel w/ 1:8 Twist. I was at a gun expo local set up by or LGS where all the repp's come and its a shoot day . What we came up with was three AR-15s with upgrades that distinguished them from more traditional models. Pistol: Semi-Auto. Im knocking quite a few off my backlist to be sure. Since then, the company expanded the line of guns to include a range of variations that fall into three main lines. It was very easy to move quickly, and the gun always felt light. Our Suppressor Guru, seen here with a SIG Sauer SRD-762 on a SIG Rattler, provides some pointers. I got several other Sigs (all calibers of P320, P365, P365xl, Xfive P320 Legion, and recently P226 Legion). During our action tests, we found the fixed front sight a little distracting, even though we had it aligned (co-witnessed) with our Romeo4 red-dot sight. Every MCX also comes with an ambidextrous safety selector and magazine release for righties and lefties. A few times the bolt wouldnt lock back after firing the last round with the SilencerCo Omega 9K in place. Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited. Facing off in a handgun challenge featuring the smallest professional-grade enclosed red dot sight on the market, Eric and Tom put the Acro P-2 to the distance test by doing a walk-back challenge. The efficiency and versatility of barrels have been upgraded to take advantage of heavier bullets able to land a more effective blow at greater distance. Starting in 2009, Advanced Armament Corporation (AAC), in cooperation with Remington Defense, took J.D. Target right showed five A-zone shots. Thoughts on MCX Rattler Canebrake. 300AAC | SIG Talk MSRP: $1,100; springfield-armory.com. Like all things in life, this entails tradeoffs. Before we jump headlong into what the market holds, perhaps we should touch upon why you might want to go a 300 Blackout pistol. Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. I said you really loved shooting the orange . An example that comes to mind is how the handguard that comes stock has mlok that only goes halfway down, and people complain about it getting real hot, and conveniently they sell a upgraded version with mlok that covers the whole thing, and effectively solves . Fitting right into this slot is the Saint Victor 300 Blackout Pistol. This means you have the option to read your magazine on most popular phones and tablets. WATCH: SIG Sauer MCX Rattler 5.56 NATO - An Official Journal Of The NRA At the Impact Zone Range, our rifles shared a $420 1x20mm SIG Sauer Romeo 4b Compact Scope with a tiny 2-minute-of-angle red dot. Honestly, theres not a ton to ballyhoo on the pistol other than it runs, dependably so. It began in earnest in the late 1980s. Please give me your thoughts and opinions! The handguard does not have a rail on the top except for a very short section near the muzzle. Detent at the safety was heavy and secure without any rough edges. Also, its loaded with frills not often found at this price point. No. As was the case with the M400 Classic, the front sight was not visible with the Tango4 optical scope mounted. Substantial in some circumstances. Target-left was placed 5 yards downrange, target-right 7 yards downrange, and the center target 10 yards downrange. Thanks Bio. The 194-grain Lehigh Defense ME bullet was the only subsonic to expand. The visual theme of the Saint was that it looks to be one piece instead of an upper and lower, or as some say, it looks monolithic. Like the MPX, the MCX uses a short-stroke gas piston system, which does away with the need for a buffer system, and the weapon can use a folding stock or no stock at all. It's The only Sig I have left I won't give up because I like it that much . At first glance, I thought the PDW was ridiculous in both appearance and performance. That saint victor is 400 above msrp though. I'm looking for advice on whether to buy a Sig Sauer MCX or the Springfield Armory Saint (new free float version). American Shooting Centers is a public range, and placing the rifle in the racks during cease fires with the bolt locked open required care because any impact to the buttstock would release the bolt. Sig 716i or Springfield Victor Saint .308 - M4Carbine.net
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